28 Jan 2026

So, it’s that time again… another re-evaluation of all the Josephs in the Chambers line in Suffolk.

The problem is that I can’t determine which Joseph married Frances Brundish in 1787.

My last attempt at organising that (see diary entry for 18 Sep 2024) left the tree like this:

JOSROOT = (1) Mary Edwards       = (2) Mary Hill
        |                        |
        |                        |
   ------------                  |
   |          |                  |
JOS1680     JOS1691            JOS1714 = (1) Elizabeth Stigold
                                       |    (2) Frances Brundish
                                       |
                                       |
                                       |
                   Elizabeth Gooch = JOS1738 = Sarah Meen
                                   |         |
                                   |         |
                                   |         |
                                   |         |
                                 JOS1767   James (my ancestor)
                                   |        1794
                                   |
                                   |
                                   |
                                 JOS1797

However since that date I found the burial of an Elizabeth Chambers in Fressingfield in 1810 noted as the “relict of Joseph”. I have attributed this burial to Elizabeth Stigold who married JOS1714 in 1737. This means that JOS1714 can’t have married Frances Brundish as he would have still been married to Elizabeth.

For reference, these are the relevant baptisms of the various Josephs that explain how I have labelled them:

27 Jun 1680, baptism of Joseph, son of Joseph Chambers, of Fressingfield, in Fressingfield (JOS1680)
1 Mar 1691, baptism of Joseph, son of Joseph Chambers, in Fressingfield (JOS1691)
6 Oct 1714, baptism of Joseph, son of Joseph Chambers, in Fressingfield (JOS1714)
26 Dec 1738, baptism of Joseph, son of Joseph and Elizabeth, in Fressingfield (JOS1738)
4 Jul 1765, baptism of Joseph, son of Mary Chambers, in Cratfield (JOS1765)
1 May 1767, baptism of Joseph, son of Joseph and Elizabeth Chambers, in Fressingfield (JOS1767)
8 Jan 1797, baptism of Joseph, son of Joseph and Susan Chambers, late Botwright, born 19 Nov 1796, in Wisset (JOS1797)

I labelled the father of JOS1680 as JOSROOT, this is Joseph Chambers baptised 1649 in Ubbeston.

I also labelled the following marriages:

1 Oct 1674, marriage of Joseph Chambers and Mary Edwards, in Fressingfield (JOSMAR1674)
25 Aug 1713, marriage of Joseph Chambers, of Fressingfield, and Mary Hill, in Woodton, Norfolk (JOSMAR1713)
3 Feb 1737, marriage of Joseph Chambers, singleman, and Elisabeth Stigold, singlewoman, in Bedfield, (7 miles south of Fressingfield) (JOSMAR1737)
28 Jul 1766, marriage of Joseph Chambers,singleman, and Elizabeth Gooch, singlewoman, in Metfield (JOSMAR1766)
25 Jul 1785, marriage of Joseph Chambers, widower, and Sarah Meen, in Fressingfield (JOSMAR1785)
17 Jan 1787, marriage of Joseph Chambers, widower and Frances Brundish, widow, in Fressingfield (JOSMAR1787)
13 Oct 1788, marriage of Joseph Chambers, singleman, of St James, and Susanna Botwright, singlewoman, in Wisset (JOSMAR1788)

And the following burials

29 Aug 1676, burial of Joseph Chambers, in Bardwell (20 miles to west of Fressingfield) (JOSBUR1676) (note that in 1685 a Mary Chambers was buried in Bardwell with the note that she was the wife of Joseph a deceased merchant, her abode was London)
14 Jun 1684, burial of Joseph Chambers, infant, in Fressingfield (JOSBUR1684)
26 Mar 1694. burial of Joseph Chambers, son of Joseph, in Fressingfield (JOSBUR1694)
6 Jul 1765, burial of Joseph Chambers, son of Mary, in Cratfield (neighbouring parish) (JOSBUR1765)
16 Aug 1777, burial of Elizabeth Chambers, in Fressingfield (ELIZBUR1777)
21 Feb 1782, burial of Elizabeth Chambers, wife of Joseph, in Fressingfield (ELIZBUR1782)
11 Oct 1807, burial of Joseph Chambers, in Fressingfield (JOSBUR1807)
21 Mar 1815, burial of Joseph Chambers, age 79, in Fressingfield (JOSBUR1815)
3 Dec 1854, burial of Joseph Chambers, age 85, in South Elmham (neighbouring parish) (JOSBUR1854)

To these I have added

30 Jan 1810, burial of Elizabeth Chambers, relict of Joseph, in Fressingfield (ELIZBUR1810)
8 Jul 1820, burial of Sarah Chambers, age 70, in Fressingfield (SARAHBUR1820)
6 Jun 1784, banns of marriage for Joseph Chambers, widower, and Sarah Robinson, widow (JOSBANNS1784)
1 Nov 1799, marrriage of Joseph Chambers, singleman, and Eliza Arden, spinster, Bury St. Edmunds. He was a serjeant in the 46th regiment of foot. (JOSMAR1799)

I don’t know who Sarah Robinson is. As far as I can tell there were no deaths of a Robinson in Fressingfield at all, so I don’t know who she was married to. The marriage itself does not seem to have taken place.

The current situation on the tree is as follows:

Joseph Chambers (JOSROOT), b. 1649, d. ???, married:

Mary Edwards, b. ???, d. 1713 in 1674
Mary Hill, b. ???, d. ??? in 1713

Joseph Chambers (JOS1714), b. 1714 , d. 1807 (JOSBUR1807), married:

Elizabeth Stigold, b. 1716, d. 1810 (ELIZBUR1810) in 1737 (JOSMAR1737)

Joseph Chambers (JOS1738), b. 1738, d. 1815 (JOSBUR1815)

Elizabeth Gooch b. ???, d. 1782 (ELIZBUR1782) in 1766 (JOSMAR1766)
Sarah Meen, b. 1751, d. 1820 (SARAHBUR1820) in 1785 (JOSMAR1785)

Joseph Chambers (JOS1767), b. 1767, d. 1854 (JOSBUR1854), married:

Susanna Botwright, b. 1762, d. 1830 in 1788 (JOSMAR1788)

In my previous diary entry I had JOS1714 marrying Frances Brundish after the presumed death of Elizabeth Stigold. However I now believe Elizabeth died in 1810. In the entry this Elizabeth was described as the “relict of Joseph” which is consistent with JOS1714 who died in 1807.

The 1785 marriage between Joseph Chambers and Frances Brundish describes them both as widowed. Frances appears to have been born Frances Meen, and married Daniel Morley in 1753, then William Brundish in 1766. A William Brundish died in 1785 in Fressingfield. This suggests she was born some time before 1735. There is a baptism of a Frances Meen in 1714 in Redenhall, just over the border in Norfolk. As far as I can tell there is no close connection between Frances Meen and Sarah Meen.

I have also discovered something else that may help the mystery. JOS1738 had a sister, Sarah, b. 1742, who married a William Brundish, b. 1743. William’s parents were William Brundish, b. 1708 and Mary Reuben. Mary died in 1758, and in 1766 William married Frances Morley, née Meen.

This would mean that Frances Brundish had been married to the father of Sarah Chambers’ husband William. This is suggestive that Sarah’s father JOS1714 was the one who married Frances Brundish née Meen, since they would be of the same generation.

In other words Frances Meen married Sarah Chambers’ father-in-law, then may have married Sarah’s father.

However, currently none of the Joseph’s in my list could have married Frances Brundish, or could have planned to marry Sarah Robinson:

We can rule out JOSROOT since he would have been far too old, over 138!

We can rule out JOS1767 since when he married Susanna Botwright in 1788 he was described as a singleman.

I have JOS1714 married to Elizabeth Stigold from 1737 until his death in 1807. This assumes that ELIZBUR1810 “Elizabeth Chambers, relict of Joseph” in 1810 is Elizabeth Stigold.

I also have JOS1738 married to Sarah Meen from 1785 to his death in 1815 (fathering 5 children with her). This assumes his previous wife, Elizabeth, died in in 1782 as per ELIZBUR1782 “Elizabeth Chambers, wife of Joseph”

Finally I have JOS1765, the illegitimate son of Mary Chambers, born in Cratfield but he died the same year

To help organise my thoughts I put together a timeline of the Josephs and their spouses.

25 Aug 1713, marriage of Joseph Chambers, of Fressingfield, and Mary Hill, in Woodton, Norfolk
6 Oct 1714, baptism of Joseph, son of Joseph Chambers, in Fressingfield
4 Dec 1716, baptism of Elizabeth Stigold, in Saxtead
3 Feb 1737, marriage of Joseph Chambers, singleman, and Elisabeth Stigold, singlewoman, in Bedfield, (7 miles south of Fressingfield
26 Dec 1738, baptism of Joseph, son of Joseph and Elizabeth, in Fressingfield
30 Mar 1751, baptism of Sarah Meen, in Laxfield
24 Apr 1753, marriage of Daniel Morley and Frances Meen, in Mendham
4 Jul 1765, baptism of Joseph, son of Mary Chambers, in Cratfield
6 Jul 1765, burial of Joseph Chambers, son of Mary, in Cratfield
28 Jul 1766, marriage of Joseph Chambers,singleman, and Elizabeth Gooch, singlewoman, in Metfield
4 Dec 1766, marriage of William Brundish, widower and Frances Morley, widow in Fressingfield
1 May 1767, baptism of Joseph, son of Joseph and Elizabeth Chambers, in Fressingfield
16 AugFressingfield 1777, burial of Elizabeth Chambers, in Fressingfield
21 Feb 1782, burial of Elizabeth Chambers, wife of Joseph, in Fressingfield
6 Jun 1784, banns of marriage for Joseph Chambers, widower, and Sarah Robinson, widow
2 Mar 1785, burial of William Brundish, in Fressingfield
25 Jul 1785, marriage of Joseph Chambers, widower, and Sarah Meen,singlewoman, in Fressingfield
17 Jan 1787, marriage of Joseph Chambers, widower and Frances Brundish, widow, in Fressingfield
13 Oct 1788, marriage of Joseph Chambers, singleman, of St James, and Susanna Botwright, singlewoman, in Wisset
8 Jan 1797, baptism of Joseph, son of Joseph and Susan Chambers, late Botwright,
11 Oct 1807, burial of Joseph Chambers, in Fressingfield
30 Jan 1810, burial of Elizabeth Chambers, relict of Joseph, in Fressingfield
8 Jul 1820, burial of Sarah Chambers, age 70, in Fressingfield (b. approx 1750)
21 Mar 1815, burial of Joseph Chambers, age 79, in Fressingfield (b. approx 1736)
3 Dec 1854, burial of Joseph Chambers, age 85, in South Elmham (b. approx 1770)

As far as I can tell, there are no other Joseph Chambers active in Suffolk or Norfolk at this time.

One very big missing piece of evidence is the death/burial of Frances Chambers Née Meen. Possibly she remarried yet again though.

Restating the problem again in a simpler timeline:

In 1766 I can definitely state that in Fressingfield there were two Joseph Chambers, both married to an Elizabeth.
An Elizabeth, no qualification, died in 1777 (ELIZBUR1777)
An Elizabeth, wife of Joseph, died in 1782 (ELIZBUR1782)
A Joseph, widower, planned to marry Sarah Robinson in 1784 but never did
A Joseph, widower, married Sarah Meen, singlewoman, in 1785
A Joseph, widower, married Frances Brundish, widow, in 1787
A Joseph died in 1807
An Elizabeth, relict of Joseph, died in 1810 (ELIZBUR1810)
A Joseph died in 1815, age 79 (born approx 1736)
A Sarah Chambers, age 70, died in 1820 (born approx 1750)

The main problem is ELIZBUR1810, the burial of “Elizabeth Chambers, relict of Joseph”, in Fressingfield, I have associated this with Elizabeth Stigold who married JOS1714. But perhaps this is wrong. If so, when did she die?

ELIZBUR1782 the burial of “Elizabeth Chambers, wife of Joseph”, in Fressingfield is associated with JOS1738 which means he was widowed and then could marry Sarah Meen three years later in 1785.

Then, there is ELIZBUR1777, the burial of “Elizabeth Chambers”, with no qualifier. I have associated this with the daughter of Joseph and Elizabeth Gooch. It can’t be Elizabeth Gooch herself since she was having children up to 1780 (the register notes the parents as Joseph and Elizabeth). I feel associating this burial with a child of four is justified as on the same page the minister has clearly written the name of another woman as “W. of xxx” and another as “Widow”, which suggests the entry for Elizabeth refers neither to a wife nor a widow.

I don’t have a satisfactory resolution of the problem at the moment. On one level it doesn’t really matter: there were no children of the marriage and Frances isn’t in my direct line of ascent. But it’s untidy and leaves me feeling that there is an inconsistency that could have wider consequences.

For example, what if there is another Joseph Chambers and he married my ancestor Sarah Meen, and the Joseph who married Elizabeth Gooch went on to marry Frances Brundish? That would mean that I wasn’t related to any of the Joseph’s I’ve been researching!

There is circumstantial evidence that suggests that JOS1714 married Frances Brundish:

she had been married to the father-in-law of his daughter Sarah
she was possibly the same age, being baptised in 1714
no children from the marriage, suggesting she is too old to bear them (unlike Sarah Meen who married a widowed Joseph two years later)

I’m left with trying to formulate some hypotheses and trying to find evidence to support or disprove them.

Elizabeth Stigold died before 1787 and JOS1714 married Frances Brundish.
- The circumstantial evidence suggests this.
- Find a burial of an Elizabeth Chambers, or assume ELIZBUR1777 refers to Elizabeth Stigold
- Find another marriage between a Joseph Chambers and an Elizabeth to account for the 1810 burial ELIZBUR1810
- Find a burial for Frances Chambers
The Elizabeth in ELIZBUR1810 actually refers to Frances Chambers. Elizabeth Stigold died before 1787 and JOS1714 married Frances Brundish.
- Find a burial of an Elizabeth Chambers, or assume ELIZBUR1777 refers to Elizabeth Stigold
- Frances was known as Elizabeth?
- The vicar wrote Elizabeth when he meant to write Frances?
JOS1767 married Frances Brundish, she died, then he married Susanna Botwright
- This would mean there was an error when he was recorded as single when he married Susanna
- Find a burial for Frances Chambers née Meen between 1787 and 1788
An as-yet unknown Joseph Chambers arrived in Fressingfield and married Frances Brundish. This is the least disruptive scenario. Nothing changes in my tree.
- Maybe I could find a burial of a Joseph Chambers and Frances Chambers in proximity after 1787
An as-yet unknown Joseph Chambers arrived in Fressingfield and married Sarah Meen and is therefore my ancestor. JOS1738 married Frances Brundish.
- Find evidence of another Joseph Chambers, such as an earlier marriage since he was a widower when marrying Sarah Meen
- Potentially use DNA evidence to connect with a different line of Chambers
- Find a burial for Frances Chambers née Meen
(DISCOUNTED) JOS1767 married Sarah Meen, who died by 1787 and he then married Frances Brundish
- There were four children of Joseph and Sarah baptised between 1787 and 1794 so clearly Sarah was still alive
- Who else does the burial of Sarah in 1820 refer to?

Here are the profiles of the Joseph Chambers discussed and their wives: